My CBFB8710 - /ats_catalog_maker/lsd_bmw.pdfStandard Overhaul set - R7A13-40 Y83,000
Carbonetics by ATS (Active Traction Service) & ACROSS Co (a world leading carbon producer)
Main Websites
Re-badged - http://www.carbonetic.net
USA ATS - http://www.ppi-ats.com/
Japan ATS- http://www.a-t-s.co.jp
Owners manual - /LSD_Universal.pdf
Previous Post on ATS - /lsd-ats-carbon-cbfb8710.html
Dimensions - I will use this to cross reference with my ATS diff /QDF38Z.pdf - see attached images
Drain Bolts - Magnetic_bolts.html - M18x1.5mm [Z27AG gearox drain bolt] - R7A58-12
AYC Drain Bolt from the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII, IX 2003-2007 - MB001265 - OEM Magnetic.
Australian Dealer for ATS - http://www.australianclutch.com.au/ located in SA, where I got my custom Kevlar Extreme Clutch
Install - Bearings = 2 x Timken Set45 LM501349/LM501310, Ring Gear Bolts = 10 x M10x1.5mm
There are a lot of fake bearings apparently. The new Timken have a hologram on the rear of the box :)
2960A304 = ring gear bolts, we have 10 of them
Gearbox Axle Seals 2 x 2960A032
Oil - Looks like i am going to go the Neo 75w90 HD/RHD from http://www.gccorp.com.au/ apparently a shop run by a guy that works with PAR Engineering.
Neo - Gear Oil 75W90RHD & Gear Oil 75W90HD
Looks like the HD is more suited to the colt due to the GL4 requirement (1.75L 75W-90 GL-4)
I will run 2lt due to over filler kit.
Break in - Drive figure 8 for about 15-30mins. The chattering noise should subside gradually.
In order to conduct break-in of LSD, please make a small turn slowly (this means figures 8's), along with the line illustrated in the figure. The speed should be 6~12mph(10-20 km/h), and the first or second gear should be used. After this operation, you should change the LSD oil. The break-in is completed after changing the oil.
Another reference for break in - Use first & second gear @ 15-30km/hr for 15-30mins, by driving figure 8s. Street break in is around ~320km, try to avoid straight line driving e.g. highway*
*200miles on a highway (straight driving) could also break it in but not properly.
See here for more: http://www.carbonetic.net/tech/pdfs/LSD_Universal.pdf
Are the Carbonetic LSD’s noisy in operation?
Not at all, our LSD’s are almost OEM quiet.
Do the LSD’s need to be bedded in?
Yes it does, we recommend you do about 180 miles and then change the LSD oil to remove any of the carbon deposits. Our technical section informs you about the bedding in.
What oil do I have to use, can I use normal LSD oil?
No we do not recommend standard gear oil with the Carbon LSD, we suggestion using the Carbonetic Oil available from your local Carbonetic dealer But if you cannot get hold of the Carbonetic oil, we have tested other brands that work with the Carbon LSD:
[this list is directly from Carbonetic]
Drive Brand Name products name Viscosity
FR BP X9140S 80W-140FF BP X9118S 75W-90
FR/FF NUTEC UW76 75W-140
FF ADVANTAG NEO Hi proof shock
FR ADVANTAG NEO RHD 75W-90
FR/MR A.S.H 250R 85W-140
FF/FR TOTAL PRO-R 75W-140
*******************************
FF - Front Engine, Front Wheel Drive
FR - Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive
MR - Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive
RR - Rear Engine, Rear Wheel Drive
AWD or 4WD - Normally Front Engine, All Wheel Drive, but some cars use a Mid-Engine
*******************************
Yes they are, we hold full stock of every part need to rebuild and service the LSD.
Can you tell me more about 1 way, 1.5 way and 2 way LSD’s?
1 way lsd: An LSD is activated only when the throttle is on and when the internal cam rings has an angle on only one side.
1.5 way lsd: The angle of the cam rings for the off-side is very close to 5-20 degrees which will make the LSD ineffective when the throttle is off (during deceleration).The Across 1.5-Way LSD will work similar to 1-Way LSD during deceleration.
2 way LSD: The 2-Way cam rings angle are cut in the same degree on both sides (throttle on and throttle off sides). A 2-Way LSD will activate during both acceleration and deceleration. 2 way is a popular choice for drifting.
More Choices for your LSD Oil [ via http://www.ppi-ats.com/LSD/Carbon_LSD2.html]
Since December 2007, ATS has been using newly designed internal disks for the ATS Carbon LSD. The new version provides 1) More adaptability to many LSD oils from different manufacturers; 2) increased durability and an extended oil change interval.
1) More Choices for your LSD Oil
ATS has tested the Carbon LSD with over 20 different LSD oils. The following oils are considered to be functioning well with the ATS Carbon LSD. [We highly recommend genuine ATS LSD oils for our use.]
The oil clarity remains within a specified range and the LSD functions normally without any chattering noise or any change in the locking characteristics upon the oil temperature change.
Brand Name Viscosity
BP X9140S 80W 140
WAKO'S HG250R 80W 250
BP X9118S 75W 90
WAKO'S HG140R 80W 140
Newtech UW76 75W 140
Omega 690 85W 140
Neo Hi proof shock 75W 140
Omega 690 75W 250
Neo RHD 75W 90
Omega 690 75W 90
A.S.H 250R 85W 140
Redline 80W 140
A.S.H FSE E spec 75W 140
Motul 75W 140
TOTAL Pro R 75W 140
Motul 75W 90
RESPO Le Mans 80W 140
Sunoco 80W 140
Oberon F-808 75W 140REPSOL 80W 140
Oberon F-808 mineral 85W 140
Subaru Stock 90W
Estremo 80W 140
2) Big improvement from a special coating
The “Carbonitriding” coating achieves the optimum balance between the carbon chips on the disks and the surface of metal disks, which will result in excellent longevity of the life of your metal disks.
[stock diff and my new ATS diff]Our new metal disk has two grooves on the surface in order to eliminate any dust particles. With the grooves, particles are efficiently removed thus will not contribute excessive friction any longer.
[some rough measurements i took, looks good]
The two factors above that contribute to the effectiveness:
● Huge reduction of iron particles
● Longer life of the LSD oil (your oil change cycle for the Carbon LSD becomes the same as for a metal LSD)
● Prevention of a negative impact on the locking performance due to the change in the oil temperature[stock SKF bearings, made in Germany]
● Prevention of early wear of the bearings and final gears
● Prevention of backlush change
----------------- What Diff do I have? -----------------
My box says this CBFB8710 for a Mini gearbox, but the USA website only lists:
Mini 06- R56 / MF16S 4-DOHC 1600cc F
Standard LSD - race proven performance
Silent LSD - noiseless operation with a milder locking and excellent control
Deftforce LSD - D1 spec, designed for to win in the drifting competition
Carbon LSD - unmatched controllability without any chattering noise
Carbon LSD Type Street - superior cost performance with 4 internal discs
A: 2way, B: 1.5 way, C: 1 way
Standard
- T(at the end of part #) -reinforced internal gears
P# RBFA(B)8710 $1,452.00
Silent LSD
- New generation metal LSD w/o chattering noise. 82mm/87mm disc - 45 & 55 degree cam
- 95mm/109mm disc - 45 & 60 degree cam
P# SBFA(B)8710
Carbon LSD (1st generation)
- Ultra smooth and quiet operation
P# CBRA(B)10910 $2,331.00
Carbon LSD Type Street
- Superior cost performance with 4 internal discs. The application is for street only
P# CSBFA(B)8710 $1,497.00
Carbon LSD Spec II
- Ultra high response
- Higher initial torque 10kg to 11kg
P# CBFA(B)87H10 $1,908.00
Carbon LSD Spec III, Spec IV
- Ultra high response
- Higher initial torque 15kg (III), 20kg (IV)
P# CBFA(B)87G10 III $1,908.00
P# CBFA(B)87F10 IV $1,908.00
----------------- Questions? -----------------
Q: Is ATS LSD streetable?
A: When a customer asks us this question, it usually means if our LSD is quiet and smooth. The answer is Yes. ATS carbon LSD (both old model, Spec II, and type street) does not have any chattering noise and the engagement is ultra smooth. In 2009, ATS released super silent LSD which is a metal LSD but does not have chattering or cranking noise. [It does chatter mildly during the break in period. However, after a 25min to 30min 8 figure break in, or after driving about 500miles, the chatter will disappear].
Q: My vehicle has too much push under and very difficult to turn. Is anything wrong with the LSD?
A: If an LSD has too much initial torque (break away torque), the vehicle becomes extremely difficult to turn. Please check the initial torque to see if it is within the factory spec. All ATS LSDs are checked for the initial torque when they are shipped out from the ATS factory. The initial torque should be less than 15 kg -m (108 lb-ft) - Metal LSD only. However, if you purchase an LSD which is overhauled or assembled by a different company or shop, the initial torque might not be checked and the LSD could have a higher initial torque than the factory spec. Carbon LSD should not cause a bad push under steer even it is a 2 way.
Q: Do I have to change LSD oil more frequetly for the carbon LSD?
A: No. The recommended oil change interval is same for ATS metal LSD and ATS carbon LSD. The carbon LSD went through a major upgrade in 2007 and after the improvement, the oil chanage is recommended every 2,000 miles which is same for the metal LSD. ATS carbon LSD upgrade - click for the page
